After the signing of the Minsk-2, the intensity of hostilities in the East of Ukraine has decreased, and the theme of war gradually began to occupy less space in the information space. But before the end of the war is still far away – it knows the founder and head of the volunteer organization “Turn alive” Vitaly Deynega. He argues that in the two years of the war the government began to better secure the front shape and armor, but with communications and night vision devices are still tight. In an interview ЛІГА.net Deynega told about the mission of the volunteer in contemporary Ukraine, what makes the focus of his organization, what is the relationship of volunteers with the country’s leadership and law enforcement agencies and why it is nothing to talk about with George Tokoi.
– What happens to the volunteer movement today – two years later, and whether it was the movement as a single body?
Movement never existed. It was a bunch of people, each of them was doing something they thought was right. Because of this, there were conflicts within the volunteers and some friendly alliances, and inconsistency – in the sense that it could help the same, in that time, stood naked and barefoot. There have been attempts to unite volunteers, but it’s impossible.
But two years ago created a network of volunteers. One of the initiators was volunteer David Arakhamiya. It’s not working?
David is an eternal optimist. I’m more of a skeptic. We have worked well in tandem and complement each other. First, it is know as… a good guy and honest guy is not a profession. There’s also very different people with different background.
See also: David Arakhamiya: In defense of no purchases without kickbacks and corruption
From those who before the war worked at the market and traded socks, to those who have signed abroad it-multimillion-dollar contracts. They have different mentality and ability. There are more strong, there are weaknesses. There are projects to which I belong, but when you see what they spend the money… There are heads which have scarcely put on the front and not really trying to understand the war. Their help is sometimes effective, and sometimes not.
– Among these were included in the defense Ministry in the “volunteer landing” in the management of Department – in particular, to monitor the procurement in the army…
– Yes, and it’s not bad. You know, one war – is ATO, and the second war is paper. You can take the best of the battalion commander, put in defence and he slammed his bureaucrats just pieces of paper shot. Honest volunteers with the paperwork will better understand.
There were instances when the world and European Champions by sniping from the “alpha”, the mother who ran the hare in the eye hit, in a real war was lost and fell into a stupor. One case competitions, and more, understanding that you can now kill
– Back to the question, what has changed in two years?
Those volunteers who started in 2014, now finally learned how to control the assistance that they give. A volunteer is also need to learn to be. We even thought to find some Western grant and make something like a “school volunteer”. Because we have this concept and practice are blurred and not always effective. We have those bottles passed, and those who box for the subway, also call themselves volunteers.
And in fact, it recently emerged, but also a profession and occupation specific. Though, because it’s a military volunteering.
Two years ago we had the Donetsk airport, Debaltsevo and active military phase. Was Ilovaysk, which became a defining point and opened my eyes to the fact that it’s a long time. Because to Ilovaysk we kind of came and liberated the territory. Two years ago, the volunteers, all the polls are civilian, since the military were all at the front, sorted out and studied what the army, how it works and how it fights. Error and no oglasavanje were so many, including us. There was a shortage of people and so on. After the “second Minsk” became more or less calm and there was a possibility to establish some kind of system work.
More specifically about the changes for two years, I can only talk about “Turn alive”. A year ago we started to hire military. Now there are three military APU – because I’m biased towards all except APU. One former battalion commander, the second – Andrew Rymaruk, scout the 53rd brigade, he is responsible for the trip to the ATO zone and controlling the supply. Simply put, looking, not to steal or where how much of what was stolen. Because the military still steal, you can’t control, but to minimize the damage. And third – Yuri Rudenko, who served as a served in the 101st brigade, issued a book about the war, and now writes some good posts about what is happening at the front.
– When was the turning point from the “military – heroes” to the point that there is still a theft?
He came gradually. Even during the Slavic operation, I started to realize that you need to follow carefully. Then on the front line were not allowed to pass anything to the front met in the village Barvenkovo – near the Raisins. There was the meeting place of two military columns from Zhitomir (ammunition and food) and from the front. In the place of their meeting came and we. That day there was no man with whom I usually worked. It all had to pass the soldiers. And of the three night vision tubes to the front has reached only two…. Now we are forcing the military to create a separate log of transfer and acceptance under our organization: how many cameras did, to whom it was issued, when it was delivered and so on. But even this is not a panacea, of course.
– How much is one tube?
At that time the dollar was 10-12, it was worth somewhere 15-16 thousand. In total, about $1500.
– How many people worked at “Turn and live”?
– The salary of 9-10 people, and those who are for us periodically does something, at least once a month, free of charge – it’s somewhere 50-60 people. Someone repairing the machine, someone carries imagers on the engraving, someone who writes posts, shooting videos.
Photos Turn we live
– With the beginning of the war in the Ukraine, a number of well-known volunteers and leaders of volunteer organizations. You are one of them. Over time, some of them have left the civil service in policy or allopoietic. How you feel about them?
– To the volunteers who had gone into power I’m different, and often negative. I am opposed to clarifying the relationship between the volunteers, especially publicly. I will say briefly: much sympathy they I did not cause. For example, Tukai we had many disagreements, but there is one, after which we have almost ceased to communicate. This is the attitude of the family of Korchinskiy.
– Unexpectedly. Why?
– I believe that these people should be deported from the country, as far as possible. Dmitry korchinskiy and his party (the Brotherhood – ed.) is a major and very dangerous, destructive, cynical provocateurs. According to his wife some questions too. Tuck is confident that Korchinskiy – good guys. After that I was with him nothing to talk about.
– Why do you say that to all the military, in addition to the APU, distrust?
– From the beginning of the war, they confused me a dubious selection and low combat and tactical training. Besides was led by some obscure men, who do not understand how did. In addition to “Azov” – they have good training, but I must say, it is also a good PR specialists. In the beginning I tried to help everyone, not yet. When someone says that we pass over dobrobiti, I will say that, for example, in “Right sector,” no one has more thermal imaging cameras than we do.
With Tokoi we had many disagreements, but there is one, after which we have almost ceased to communicate. This is the attitude of the family of Korchinskiy. I believe they are worthy of deportation, and Tuck – they’re good guys
Another volunteer I was confused about the number of their PR. Because I saw that fight Vsushniki, and the PR. I’m not saying that they are not fighting, it’s about justice and balance of attention from companies and volunteers. This is generally a problem: for example, we ourselves are plastered airborne brigade, and the infantry and artillery went unheeded, but for them this war rests. Everyone knows Azov and Aydar, but few know the 10th or the 14th brigade of the armed forces.
And if we lost the 93rd or 95th brigade would land. We would have lost the war. And that if would not some dobrobat – if he’d closed down – nothing would have changed. Again: nobody is perfect – neither one nor the. Just, I’m sorry, but the number of people – all dobrobiti together – it’s like one 30 brigade.
– Come back alive well-known fact that it is not sprayed and focuses efforts on specific projects, not picking up clothes/food/armor/. Now what is your main direction?
– It was always the thermal imaging is now the imaging. This is half of all collected funds. The second half is also allocated for specific projects. For example, it is now buying and car repair. We have a creative project to repair the APU teams – when they-the United States handed over a good car-the car GMC and Chevrolet Suburban, a kind of mobile repair cabins – in drawers for tools, compressor, generator and so on. We want to fix these “Technicals” to enable them to readily move around the polygon and on the ATO and to promptly repair the equipment. Plus to recruit people. These crews need to fill all the necessary tools, and some repair. This is the first task.
Second, the US passed the APU 30 armored humvees. Cars great, but the old, they also need to fix. While we have the keys to the American nut. Collect two out of three is a problem.
– At what stage these programs on cars?
– Prepare estimates, negotiate with sponsors. The initial stage. If all goes well, we to its 700 thermal imager to help the ATO will add 100-200 repaired hammer.
– Lead report, where and how to use your army donated the cameras. Did not get into enemy hands, not stolen?
– My main goal last year was to establish a system of accounting and control. It’s hard because the military can make an act, get a stamp and still steal. It’s such a murky subject on which burn many volunteers including. Called “I did a good job, and once the birthplace of the order does not, then I’ll take it”. In the Donetsk airport, by the way, snuck a lot of imagers. There was such chaos that it is easily happened when the soldiers went to the rotation and “accidentally” nykat the device in their belongings. Machine harder to steal, although it had its moments. A thermal imager – the thing is small and expensive. To steal it easily.
– Anyone in civilian life need a thermal imager?
Toy – the Windows in the house to watch where the heat goes, the night to consider, for the bunnies in the box to multiply. Besides it in to the pawn shop you can donate. However, our imagers engraved and signed “not for sale” because of their pawnshops, as far as I know, not taken.
– Obviously, your program require cooperation and coordination with authorities: the leadership of the defense Ministry, General staff, and maybe even from a Bank.
– That, in General, no. What I can prevent, defense if I want to help a brigade to forbid me to go to the front?
– Well, for example, to prohibit you to work with those American Hummers.
– Look, you take the Marines. They say,… don’t want to call the actual number. Well, let’s say, 50 Hummers while on the go 15. I suppose tomorrow I come and say: guys, I’ll fix it. And then comes someone from the Ministry of defence or the General staff and prohibits me. And what about the Marines with him then do? So I’m not afraid, and prepared a draft of such arrival. It will take a month or two.
– That is the problem with a “boss” you don’t?
– There have been cases curious. I try to get acquainted with all the military leaders on the ground to make it easier to carry out the logistics. In particular, with the commanders of sectors. About someone I have a good opinion about someone – no. Here are two examples: the former commander of sector C (debaltseve direction) Grishchenko – a huge man. A person who understands the need of modern technology. Who first adopted and supported our project GIS “Art” – the new control system artillery. This man could in my sector, in the night start tank doctrine. Gives the team all the tanks off the ground and go forward – they go 5 miles, maneuvering and then come back. Terrorists on the other side go crazy in such moments – it seems that the entire Ukrainian army went on the attack. Grishchenko almost the President calls and says, have You decided yourself Donetsk to win?! In General, a great man and a good commander. He knows exactly where, and that in his sector, where he has a warehouse of ammo, if a warehouse is going to blow, what to do next and so on. Everything is thought out, the real man in his place. Now he no longer commanded the sector at slightly different positions.
Photos Turn we live
There is an opposite example: you come once to the commander of sector B. the Name of his Krasnooky. Honestly, that’s how I know the military, they all say that he … . Recently Poroshenko in his generals made.
The first question he asked us: “based On what you move in my sector.” I even sat down. Then I think: well, OK, there are people not in touch with reality – not a problem. Say: well, the cameras brought. A few pieces. He said If I bring 100 imagers, I will distribute them. Okay, I think… ” or ” go collect 100 of imaging, and give some to**BU like you to distribute. In General, his only merit, as the military say, that he could not prevent to work and function sector. He then called all of the brigade and ordered on our arrival to report to him personally without his permission will not be allowed. But we are still all allowed and everything worked fine.
– And at the level of the Ministry of defense whether there is contact with the Minister?
– Poltorak I have a direct contact and normal. We can call to talk to if you have a case. He was able to hear and take into account our opinion. It should be noted that the defense Ministry and the General staff is not really one structure. We have a problem in that, for example, the chief of the General staff is the commander and head of headquarters. The administrative and command office, which in normal countries are usually divorced. Second, the chief of the General staff, as an administrative unit, very often overlaps with the Poltorak – one buys clothing and fuel, and the second, for example, weapons. And then in between a lot of collisions and conflicts. In fact, between the NHS and the Ministry of defence historically, there is a competition and she’s not well, so I can’t say that it’s one structure. We must pay tribute that the Muzhenko and Poltorak at least trying to cooperate.
– Your attitude to the chief of the General staff Muzhenko? In his address sounds a lot of criticism, including from volunteers.
I know that Muzhenko behind me speaks not very well, but I must be fair and admit that at the moment he is in his place. Muzhenko one of the most controversial characters in the war, but rather positive. Yeah, his problem is that the best thing he had ever seen in my life, it was the Soviet army. As a result, he tries the army to recreate today in Ukraine of the XXI century. He thinks tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, he does not understand the imagers, drones, not to mention special operations information and the Internet.
– The man yesterday?
Not quite. He has advanced an interesting thought, but he’s a marine. A marine will never understand the characteristics of special operations and more complicated things.
– That is, he is a Pro, just the leadership of the General staff – not the level?
– At the moment, Viktor Muzhenko, whether you like it or not, the best candidate for the leadership of the General staff. He may not like me in many ways, including due to some staffing blindness, “due to” which sectors command such as Krasnooky, but for all that, Muzhenko is the only person of such level who has strategic thinking. He had a high level of intelligence and a good education. Besides, one of the few, maybe the only one in the top military leadership who is willing to take risks. If not for him, we would have fought more hesitantly.
If we lost the 93rd or 95th brigade of the armed forces – would have the edge. We would have lost the war
– What is the willingness to take risks, if for political reasons we are not at war?
– If not raids 95th and 30th brigades, the losses during Ilovaysk would be much more impressive. And I’m not just talking about loss of life, and about the loss of the territories
– What kind of relationship you have with the leadership of the interior Ministry and the SBU, which is also involved in the ATO?
– The MIA does. The national guard never fights, MIA is now nothing to do with the war.
– Basics included in the structure of the interior Ministry.
– To the Azov I have a good attitude, but they are displayed on the third line. Individuals from Azov found there – go and how the volunteers help the brigade of the APU, as snipers, for example. On overall police units on the best there is.
– The SBU?
– Relationship to the head of the SBU (Vasily Gritsak – ed.) I, to put it mildly, negative. We all know that we met at some meetings. I once showed him that the security service protects contraband, then the SBU flew a few goals, but they are fronting the smuggling has not ceased. They created a public Council, which is the only thing that does, is ensures that the SBU about the bad never said or wrote. And helps the volunteers mostly in the details. There is no fight against corruption in SBU I in their performance not seen. Although they should have access to information and not to allow the security service to tackle corruption. It is not visible.
I say at once that the negative attitude I have specifically to the leadership of the SBU, but I admire the work of individuals from the special forces of SBU “alpha” who are always in the ATO. Not going to specify, but volunteers will know who I’m talking about. They are the best unit in this war. As the level of motivation and level of performance.
– “Alpha” has always been well prepared.
– You know, not so much, actually. There were instances when the world and European Champions by sniping from the “alpha”, the mother who ran the hare in the eye hit, in a real war was lost and fell into a stupor. One case competitions, and more, understanding that you now can kill.
– What are the relations of volunteers with the President and his Administration?
– The President first and only time rushed to the side of the volunteers ahead of the 2014 elections, when he realized that his people’s front wins the PR and through Facebook. Self-help also took Semenchenko, someone else. Then each party tried to get on the topic of war more votes. Poroshenko, in turn, for a couple of months before the election decided to win over volunteers. Gathered once all large volunteers and really talked to us. Then many were awarded medals of Princess Olga (for girls) and For merit (for boys). I also gave a merit of the third degree. Even appointed Biryukov his adviser, after which the jury has changed beyond recognition. I don’t blame – this is a personal choice. And that’s it. Elections were held and no more communications with the President, no meeting was. There was a separate meeting, when the idea that volunteers have to combat smuggling, but it does not end there. Rather, over the fact that SBU is all took for themselves. According to rumors, sbushniki are crazy bribes tens of thousands of dollars to the leadership to work to a rotation of the mobile group on the smuggling. One rotation is a two to three month. And there, to enrich themselves, at times and days may suffice.
– What is now most missing on the front. Than volunteers can help most effectively? Form, power, technique?
– Food never had a problem. All the talk about what soldiers are starving is an exaggeration. Eating everything normal ceased to engage more in the summer of 2014. Form and vests now government comes also good. Not enough, still, thermal. Americans 30 years of age have a military advantage in all conflicts, because they see at night, how would primitive as it may sound. They have precision weapons, latest communication systems and night vision equipment in the required quantities. Weather conditions and time of day have no values for them in the war. We have, unfortunately, quite different.
Photos Turn we live
– Is it possible to establish production of thermal imaging devices in Ukraine?
– In Ukraine there is one company that makes good cameras. Another thing is that she, being the only sets high prices. Even with the discounts that they provide to volunteers, it is very expensive. Besides one company can’t produce them in quantity.
Generally the most important thing in the imager is a matrix. The best matrix – American, and it is a strategic commodity, the export ban and the permission to contract only with consumers. That is, buy matrix, the defense Ministry, not the company. Then what kind of production are we talking about?
– Come back alive after stories with electronic declarations of the beginning of the project “E-Tithing” when he publicly sent the most wealthy deputies and officials of the letter with the offer to transfer the money to the ATO. This is pure PR project or is there some kind of efficiency?
The thought of such shares ripe for a long time – I’m constantly on Facebook, indicate that you need to ask for money not ordinary people, and parliamentary millionaires and other officials. The theme of declarations helped us. The practical meaning is also there – the head of the Dneprovsky regional state administration Reznichenko has already bought us a thermal imager. Or rather, not to us, but people’s rear, but that’s not important – the thing that gave the army (it is said that he helped a lot and so). Homutynnik responded in the week since it will be the second meeting, he’s been on it he starts to insist. I think something will also.
– Nobody else?
– Many answer that and so help the army. Let’s just say, almost all of them have some charities, but they help, usually within their constituency.
– Most popular question: what you live yourself, collecting hundreds of thousands to the army?
As I said, on salary we have 9 people. The first time we all worked at their jobs, but eventually I had all the time to give organization and aid of the ATO. People need something to live and we prophetic in 2014 turned to odno of the then sponsors (Sergey Savchenko from the furniture factory “Blest”) if he could allocate 35 thousand UAH to pay salaries to us. A separate Fund collected to the ATO. Now this figure has increased because people became more and salaries I now slightly raised. At the end of 2014 I also began to receive a salary. Now I have it is 15 thousand UAH. The biggest sponsor for the salaries, office and organizational expenses Come alive is the Slope-taxi. They now give 80 thousand UAH per month.